i have a savage/stevens 311 double barrel that i havent used for a long time. i recently took it out to use it and noticed something wrong with it. nothing happened when i pulled either trigger. upon further inspection i noticed the firing pins werent being cocked, or "reset", when the gun was opened. without taking the gun apart, i realized everything was working properly externally. the cocking plunger raises up the cocking lever as it is soposed to upon breaking open the gun. normally, when the cocking lever is raised, it "clicks" when it cocks the firing pins. my problem is, it doesnt "click" when the cocking lever is raised. would it be correct to assume the sear isnt working properly and i would need a new spring for it?
Question: Do you use a nitro powder solvent like Hoppe's No. 9?
Ezequiel
Joined: August 2011
Posted: November 24, 2010 04:02 PM
Question: Do you use a nitro powder solvent like Hoppe's No. 9?
George Mercuriogpmercurio@charter.nethttps://www.gunpartscorp.com/brblog/post/report/https://www.gunpartscorp.com/brblog/post/message/
I had one with that problem, check out parts 39 and 40 in the schematic. The screw is prone to break. I drilled and tapped for a 10-32 flathead screw and never had the problem again. George M.
George Mercurio
Joined: January 1970
Posted: November 24, 2010 05:55 PM
I had one with that problem, check out parts 39 and 40 in the schematic. The screw is prone to break. I drilled and tapped for a 10-32 flathead screw and never had the problem again. George M.
Break it down, remove the barrel, remove the butt plate, and take the stock off. This way you can see the complete internal mechanism. (probably needs cleaning anyway). With a large flat blade screwdriver, from the front of the receiver, lift up the cocking lever, and watch whats happening inside the receiver. If you dont hear the clicks, either the sear spring is off the sear arms, or its just worn out. If thats what it is, easy fix, and will be self inflammatory when observed. he.e.e...keep us posted. I've fixed/repaired/reblued a ton of these. Only had one that I never could get to work right, he.e.e.
JEB
Joined: March 2018
Posted: November 24, 2010 09:52 PM
Break it down, remove the barrel, remove the butt plate, and take the stock off. This way you can see the complete internal mechanism. (probably needs cleaning anyway). With a large flat blade screwdriver, from the front of the receiver, lift up the cocking lever, and watch whats happening inside the receiver. If you dont hear the clicks, either the sear spring is off the sear arms, or its just worn out. If thats what it is, easy fix, and will be self inflammatory when observed. he.e.e...keep us posted. I've fixed/repaired/reblued a ton of these. Only had one that I never could get to work right, he.e.e.
Fwiw, It only take a minute amount of a powder solvent like Hoppe's No.9 left in the action to gum it up. These solvents are not intended to be left on any gun surface. They should be used to dissolve and clean deposits and then COMPLETELY removed. WHY??? Because the tend to dry out and leave a very tacky varnish like residue...which..in turn is a magnet for any type of detrius that happens along...time will harden this goop and the result is often parts frozen in place or their movement/travel severly restricted. Hot into cold worsens things. I used plain old OTC lighter fulid...the kind used in the old Zippo cigarette lighters to dissolve this crap and flush it out. Be advised that the lighter fluid is NOT FRIENDLY to stocks and plastics and all such material should be removed before flusing the action. The metal parts will be left unprotected I use a dry film lube..like silicone spray or a light application of a light non-drying gun oil(Rem-Oil) Try degunking the gun..even if it looks clean..before pulling any parts....Time may be your problem here....
Ezequiel
Joined: August 2011
Posted: November 26, 2010 01:23 PM
Fwiw, It only take a minute amount of a powder solvent like Hoppe's No.9 left in the action to gum it up. These solvents are not intended to be left on any gun surface. They should be used to dissolve and clean deposits and then COMPLETELY removed. WHY??? Because the tend to dry out and leave a very tacky varnish like residue...which..in turn is a magnet for any type of detrius that happens along...time will harden this goop and the result is often parts frozen in place or their movement/travel severly restricted. Hot into cold worsens things. I used plain old OTC lighter fulid...the kind used in the old Zippo cigarette lighters to dissolve this crap and flush it out. Be advised that the lighter fluid is NOT FRIENDLY to stocks and plastics and all such material should be removed before flusing the action. The metal parts will be left unprotected I use a dry film lube..like silicone spray or a light application of a light non-drying gun oil(Rem-Oil) Try degunking the gun..even if it looks clean..before pulling any parts....Time may be your problem here....
i just got done troubleshooting the problem but didnt come up with an answer. i took the barrel and stock off and looked inside. seemed like everything was in place. i took a screwdriver and lifted the cocking lever, and bingo- the gun cocked. put the gun back together and pulled both triggers, both pins fired like normal. broke the gun open to see if it would cock again but it didnt.
took the barrel and stock back off and successfully re-cocked it again with the screwdriver. i paid close attention to how high the cocking lever had to be for it to "click". i thought maybe when the gun was all together it wasnt lifting the cocking lever all the way. i re-assembled the gun and fired the firing pins again. as i opened the gun, i watched the gun do its job as it raised the cocking lever, but the gun never cocked, or "clicked". although the cocking lever appeared as high as it was when i got it to cock while disassembled, i pried on the cocking lever with a screwdriver thinking maybe it needed to be raised a bit more, but it was as high as it would go.
i repeated this process a couple times. the only way i could get the gun to cock is when i had the barrel and stock off it.
anybody have any ideas?
i know the best bet would be to take it to a gunsmith and i will as a last resort. i just want to try and fix it myself if i can.
one other question... the way the ejector (part #39) sits in the forend iron and the screwhole is slotted, looks like it is meant to rock up and down as the action is broke open and closed. is this true or is it meant to be set in a fixed position?
eelfisher
Joined: November 2010
Posted: November 26, 2010 02:57 PM
thanks zeke for the info....
i just got done troubleshooting the problem but didnt come up with an answer. i took the barrel and stock off and looked inside. seemed like everything was in place. i took a screwdriver and lifted the cocking lever, and bingo- the gun cocked. put the gun back together and pulled both triggers, both pins fired like normal. broke the gun open to see if it would cock again but it didnt.
took the barrel and stock back off and successfully re-cocked it again with the screwdriver. i paid close attention to how high the cocking lever had to be for it to "click". i thought maybe when the gun was all together it wasnt lifting the cocking lever all the way. i re-assembled the gun and fired the firing pins again. as i opened the gun, i watched the gun do its job as it raised the cocking lever, but the gun never cocked, or "clicked". although the cocking lever appeared as high as it was when i got it to cock while disassembled, i pried on the cocking lever with a screwdriver thinking maybe it needed to be raised a bit more, but it was as high as it would go.
i repeated this process a couple times. the only way i could get the gun to cock is when i had the barrel and stock off it.
anybody have any ideas?
i know the best bet would be to take it to a gunsmith and i will as a last resort. i just want to try and fix it myself if i can.
one other question... the way the ejector (part #39) sits in the forend iron and the screwhole is slotted, looks like it is meant to rock up and down as the action is broke open and closed. is this true or is it meant to be set in a fixed position?
It sounds as if you have a "travel" issue here. The cocking is directly related to the breaking of the action and the interaction between the reciever parts and the forend parts. One of the prime causes is that the forend iron is loose in the forend wood. This can be caused by anything from a crack. a loose screw or even the wood drying out over years of storage. I would first use a solvent to clean all the aged residue of any left behind cleaning compound...both in the reciever and in the forend..pay close attention, not only to the -39, but to the -35 and its associated parts...clean out the tunnel and check for burrs..it can be a matter of as little as .0001 of restricted travel. The "click" in the reciever is not only the cocking levers,but also their engagement with the sears...the sears are pin mounted and assisted by a torsion spring(check for a bent or broken leg) The cocking lever and spring can also be restricted as well as the hammers not moving freely in their tunnels..check firing pins for burrs and breakage...even a trigger that has been bent or rusted can restrict movement..in other words problems like this can be progressive in nature and the result of some accumalated minor problems..The repair is a step by step inspection and ALWAYS starts with a complete and thourgh cleaning..use a Q-tip with fluffed up cotton to drag detect burrs.....
Ezequiel
Joined: August 2011
Posted: November 26, 2010 05:30 PM
It sounds as if you have a "travel" issue here. The cocking is directly related to the breaking of the action and the interaction between the reciever parts and the forend parts. One of the prime causes is that the forend iron is loose in the forend wood. This can be caused by anything from a crack. a loose screw or even the wood drying out over years of storage. I would first use a solvent to clean all the aged residue of any left behind cleaning compound...both in the reciever and in the forend..pay close attention, not only to the -39, but to the -35 and its associated parts...clean out the tunnel and check for burrs..it can be a matter of as little as .0001 of restricted travel. The "click" in the reciever is not only the cocking levers,but also their engagement with the sears...the sears are pin mounted and assisted by a torsion spring(check for a bent or broken leg) The cocking lever and spring can also be restricted as well as the hammers not moving freely in their tunnels..check firing pins for burrs and breakage...even a trigger that has been bent or rusted can restrict movement..in other words problems like this can be progressive in nature and the result of some accumalated minor problems..The repair is a step by step inspection and ALWAYS starts with a complete and thourgh cleaning..use a Q-tip with fluffed up cotton to drag detect burrs.....
zeke, once again thanks for your time. sometime in the near future, when i have the time to be thorough and not rush it, i will take everything apart and clean it and re-assemble it. hopefully i will have a functional gun again.
i did check to see if the forend iron was screwed on tight, and it was. i also inspected the #35 and it seemed to be fully functional without any wear or mis-shape to it. i will thoroughly clean these parts also.
i'm not a gunsmith by any means, but i think maybe the problem is something associated with #35 engaging the cocking lever? i just dont understand how the gun, while its assembled, doesnt do the job in cocking itself... yet when i break it down i can do #35's job with a screwdriver. when assembled, #35 appears to be raising the cocking lever as far as it will go, so maybe i'm wrong. i dont know. the gun seems to want to only cock manually via screwdriver when the forearm/barrel/stock is unattached...
i'll post up again when the gun gets cleaned. your help is much appreciated.
eelfisher
Joined: November 2010
Posted: November 26, 2010 10:42 PM
zeke, once again thanks for your time. sometime in the near future, when i have the time to be thorough and not rush it, i will take everything apart and clean it and re-assemble it. hopefully i will have a functional gun again.
i did check to see if the forend iron was screwed on tight, and it was. i also inspected the #35 and it seemed to be fully functional without any wear or mis-shape to it. i will thoroughly clean these parts also.
i'm not a gunsmith by any means, but i think maybe the problem is something associated with #35 engaging the cocking lever? i just dont understand how the gun, while its assembled, doesnt do the job in cocking itself... yet when i break it down i can do #35's job with a screwdriver. when assembled, #35 appears to be raising the cocking lever as far as it will go, so maybe i'm wrong. i dont know. the gun seems to want to only cock manually via screwdriver when the forearm/barrel/stock is unattached...
i'll post up again when the gun gets cleaned. your help is much appreciated.
Try taking the barrel back off, and turn it upside down. Look at the locking lug, where the extractors are. Make sure the cocking arm will slide back and forth freeley. There is a very tiny screw that keeps it in place, but allows it to slide back and forth. It may be locked up in there, or screw too tight keeping it in place.
JEB
Joined: March 2018
Posted: November 26, 2010 11:35 PM
Try taking the barrel back off, and turn it upside down. Look at the locking lug, where the extractors are. Make sure the cocking arm will slide back and forth freeley. There is a very tiny screw that keeps it in place, but allows it to slide back and forth. It may be locked up in there, or screw too tight keeping it in place.
George Mercuriogpmercurio@charter.nethttps://www.gunpartscorp.com/brblog/post/report/https://www.gunpartscorp.com/brblog/post/message/
Do the extractors "extract" when you cock the piece with a screwdriver, re-assemble, close the action, and then open the action?
Do the ejectors "eject" when you cock the piece with a screwdriver, re-assemble, close the action, pull the triggers, and then open the action?
George M.
George Mercurio
Joined: January 1970
Posted: November 27, 2010 11:49 AM
Do the extractors "extract" when you cock the piece with a screwdriver, re-assemble, close the action, and then open the action?
Do the ejectors "eject" when you cock the piece with a screwdriver, re-assemble, close the action, pull the triggers, and then open the action?
George, the barrel is off the receiver when you cock it with the screwdriver. You are manually lifting the cocking yoke from the front of receiver, resting the blade of the screwdriver on the pivot lug.
JEB
Joined: March 2018
Posted: November 27, 2010 01:51 PM
George, the barrel is off the receiver when you cock it with the screwdriver. You are manually lifting the cocking yoke from the front of receiver, resting the blade of the screwdriver on the pivot lug.
jeb, when you say cocking arm, are you referring to the cocking plunger? the part that slides and lifts the cocking lever as the action is broke open? if so, it slides back and forth freely.
george, the extractor does work when the gun is fully assembled. the ejector, part #39... i asked a question about it in a previous post. if it is meant to rock back and forth on the forend iron then yeah its working properly
eelfisher
Joined: November 2010
Posted: November 27, 2010 09:18 PM
jeb, when you say cocking arm, are you referring to the cocking plunger? the part that slides and lifts the cocking lever as the action is broke open? if so, it slides back and forth freely.
george, the extractor does work when the gun is fully assembled. the ejector, part #39... i asked a question about it in a previous post. if it is meant to rock back and forth on the forend iron then yeah its working properly
hmmm, this is a good one. Next time you put it back together, make sure the hammers are in the cocked position before installing the barrel. This way the cocking arm/plunger, should slip underneath the cocking yoke in the receiver. Pull both triggers, and try it again. This is a good site for smithing help, but man...its hard to trobleshoot something with just words on a screen. Keep up posted...gotta be something simple.
JEB
Joined: March 2018
Posted: November 27, 2010 09:48 PM
hmmm, this is a good one. Next time you put it back together, make sure the hammers are in the cocked position before installing the barrel. This way the cocking arm/plunger, should slip underneath the cocking yoke in the receiver. Pull both triggers, and try it again. This is a good site for smithing help, but man...its hard to trobleshoot something with just words on a screen. Keep up posted...gotta be something simple.
George Mercuriogpmercurio@charter.nethttps://www.gunpartscorp.com/brblog/post/report/https://www.gunpartscorp.com/brblog/post/message/
"part #39... i asked a question about it in a previous post. if it is meant to rock back and forth on the forend iron then yeah its working properly"
I meant do the "extractors" act as they are supposed to and just extract the shells?
And do the "ejectors" act as they are supposed to and completely eject the shells?
Try this. Cock w/screwdriver, assemble, fire once, open. Does one barrel eject and the other extract?
George M.
George Mercurio
Joined: January 1970
Posted: November 27, 2010 11:04 PM
"part #39... i asked a question about it in a previous post. if it is meant to rock back and forth on the forend iron then yeah its working properly"
I meant do the "extractors" act as they are supposed to and just extract the shells?
And do the "ejectors" act as they are supposed to and completely eject the shells?
Try this. Cock w/screwdriver, assemble, fire once, open. Does one barrel eject and the other extract?
jeepers...getting more interesting by the minuite. hee.e..e.. The 311 does not have 'auto ejectors', when you breech the barrel. It just lifts out the spent shells, and you will manually pull them out. Lots of the old Stevens single shot, shotguns DID have the auto eject feature. Not the 311 style however. If this gun will cock and fire mechanically, using the screwdirver technique, I suspect there is a problem on reassembly, or the cocking lever is just worn out, or either up-side down. The cocking lever/plunger/ whatever...has to slide up underneath the cocking lever yoke in the receiver. When the barrel is breeched, that lever will push up on the cocking yoke, in the reciever, and cock both hammers at the same time. Wish I had it in hand, to solve the problem, but there goes the $, for FFL transfers etc... nothing is easy these days. UPS shipping, FFL thransfers, log in.-log out...jeeeze. The 'good ole boys' days are gone! he.e.e.e....
JEB
Joined: March 2018
Posted: November 28, 2010 04:16 AM
jeepers...getting more interesting by the minuite. hee.e..e.. The 311 does not have 'auto ejectors', when you breech the barrel. It just lifts out the spent shells, and you will manually pull them out. Lots of the old Stevens single shot, shotguns DID have the auto eject feature. Not the 311 style however. If this gun will cock and fire mechanically, using the screwdirver technique, I suspect there is a problem on reassembly, or the cocking lever is just worn out, or either up-side down. The cocking lever/plunger/ whatever...has to slide up underneath the cocking lever yoke in the receiver. When the barrel is breeched, that lever will push up on the cocking yoke, in the reciever, and cock both hammers at the same time. Wish I had it in hand, to solve the problem, but there goes the $, for FFL transfers etc... nothing is easy these days. UPS shipping, FFL thransfers, log in.-log out...jeeeze. The 'good ole boys' days are gone! he.e.e.e....
george, jebs reply hit the nail on the head. the gun doesnt auto eject, it just extract the shells enough to manually pull them out.
jeb, i agree on your suspicion of there being a problem on reassembly, logic points in that direction. but what i dont understand is this... when the gun is disassembled (forearm, barrel and stock detached) i can hold the receiver in my hand and manually cock it with a screwdriver. the second i attach the stock only, without the forearm and barrel, i cant get it to cock with the screwdriver anymore.
i wish you could look at it in person so you could see what im talkin about...i think im gonna have to take it to a gunsmith who knows what he's lookin at. the problem seems like it could be so simple...
one of the reasons i like doubles is the lack of mechanical parts to give you problems with. i think this gun knows i want to take it out of retirement ha ha. i guess it seen enough of salt marshes...
eelfisher
Joined: November 2010
Posted: November 28, 2010 09:35 AM
george, jebs reply hit the nail on the head. the gun doesnt auto eject, it just extract the shells enough to manually pull them out.
jeb, i agree on your suspicion of there being a problem on reassembly, logic points in that direction. but what i dont understand is this... when the gun is disassembled (forearm, barrel and stock detached) i can hold the receiver in my hand and manually cock it with a screwdriver. the second i attach the stock only, without the forearm and barrel, i cant get it to cock with the screwdriver anymore.
i wish you could look at it in person so you could see what im talkin about...i think im gonna have to take it to a gunsmith who knows what he's lookin at. the problem seems like it could be so simple...
one of the reasons i like doubles is the lack of mechanical parts to give you problems with. i think this gun knows i want to take it out of retirement ha ha. i guess it seen enough of salt marshes...
The replacement of the buttstock and then having the problem suggest so sort of interference. Perhaps the stock screws are bearing on the sear levers..or...due to stock shrikage, is allowing the thru bolt(-53 &-54) to protrude into the action and prevent proper function.Try this first use chalk to coat the inletting of the buttstock, reassemble and try it..then take it aprt..carefully...and see if the chalk has been rubbed off in any area. If there is an issue of interference...clear it...then re-install the buttstock and tighten the thru bolt..if the problem is still there start adding additional washers(-54) under the thru bolt to shorten its travel into the reciever...wood shrinkage from prolonged storage can cause your proplem...
Ezequiel
Joined: August 2011
Posted: November 28, 2010 10:27 AM
The replacement of the buttstock and then having the problem suggest so sort of interference. Perhaps the stock screws are bearing on the sear levers..or...due to stock shrikage, is allowing the thru bolt(-53 &-54) to protrude into the action and prevent proper function.Try this first use chalk to coat the inletting of the buttstock, reassemble and try it..then take it aprt..carefully...and see if the chalk has been rubbed off in any area. If there is an issue of interference...clear it...then re-install the buttstock and tighten the thru bolt..if the problem is still there start adding additional washers(-54) under the thru bolt to shorten its travel into the reciever...wood shrinkage from prolonged storage can cause your proplem...
zeke i took the stock off to see if the bolt was bearing down on the sear levers and saw that was not the case....BUT.... i noticed when i merely placed the stock back on WITHOUT screwing the bolt on, the gun would not cock!... take the stock off, gun would cock... put stock on, gun wouldnt cock...
upon further inspection i noticed that on the stock where it fits into the receiver, there are 4 "fingers" that stick out to seat the stock into place. one of these "fingers" was pressing against a sear arm in the slightest way, enough for it not to cock. i took a razor blade and shaved enough off the "finger" for it not to interfere with the sear arm. reassembled the gun and it works like new.
one thing i didnt mention before that i should have, was that this stock isnt the original. i replaced the original years ago because it was cracked to the point where it was dangerous. i havent fired the gun since i replaced it and thats why i didnt know there was a problem until now.
i just want to once again thank everyone who took the time to respond to my posts and help me out.
eelfisher
Joined: November 2010
Posted: November 28, 2010 03:06 PM
I FOUND THE PROBLEM!!
zeke i took the stock off to see if the bolt was bearing down on the sear levers and saw that was not the case....BUT.... i noticed when i merely placed the stock back on WITHOUT screwing the bolt on, the gun would not cock!... take the stock off, gun would cock... put stock on, gun wouldnt cock...
upon further inspection i noticed that on the stock where it fits into the receiver, there are 4 "fingers" that stick out to seat the stock into place. one of these "fingers" was pressing against a sear arm in the slightest way, enough for it not to cock. i took a razor blade and shaved enough off the "finger" for it not to interfere with the sear arm. reassembled the gun and it works like new.
one thing i didnt mention before that i should have, was that this stock isnt the original. i replaced the original years ago because it was cracked to the point where it was dangerous. i havent fired the gun since i replaced it and thats why i didnt know there was a problem until now.
i just want to once again thank everyone who took the time to respond to my posts and help me out.
Glad you got it figured out. I just read your post about the buttstock...work, not work...on..off. Zeke nailed it, had to be interference somewhere. Stayed tuned to this site....great folks here! Were not real big, but I've found it to be the most helpful, and you get personalized service, and meet lots of friends. Later.
JEB
Joined: March 2018
Posted: November 28, 2010 07:19 PM
Glad you got it figured out. I just read your post about the buttstock...work, not work...on..off. Zeke nailed it, had to be interference somewhere. Stayed tuned to this site....great folks here! Were not real big, but I've found it to be the most helpful, and you get personalized service, and meet lots of friends. Later.
George Mercuriogpmercurio@charter.nethttps://www.gunpartscorp.com/brblog/post/report/https://www.gunpartscorp.com/brblog/post/message/
Way back when I was a younger man, I went to Sears and bought my first shotgun. It was a pretty, double barrel, full/modified, 12ga, single trigger, pressed checkering, machine engraved, nickel plated receiver. People who saw it said, "It's a Fox of Canada" (It looked like the Savage 311 we have been fixing). Many a squirrel, cottontail, one Pheasant and two ducks fell to my prowess with that gun. The slot machined in the receiver for the trigger had another slot next to it plugged (I thought it might be for a second trigger configuration). I remember two distinct traits the gun had:
1) It would break part 40 on a regular basis until I drilled and tapped for an 8 or 10-32 SST flat head screw.
2) It would extract the unfired shell and eject the fired shell when broken opened. Did not any of the 311 guns have this feature, and can/could the 311 be made in a single trigger? George M.
George Mercurio
Joined: January 1970
Posted: December 2, 2010 09:04 PM
Way back when I was a younger man, I went to Sears and bought my first shotgun. It was a pretty, double barrel, full/modified, 12ga, single trigger, pressed checkering, machine engraved, nickel plated receiver. People who saw it said, "It's a Fox of Canada" (It looked like the Savage 311 we have been fixing). Many a squirrel, cottontail, one Pheasant and two ducks fell to my prowess with that gun. The slot machined in the receiver for the trigger had another slot next to it plugged (I thought it might be for a second trigger configuration). I remember two distinct traits the gun had:
1) It would break part 40 on a regular basis until I drilled and tapped for an 8 or 10-32 SST flat head screw.
2) It would extract the unfired shell and eject the fired shell when broken opened. Did not any of the 311 guns have this feature, and can/could the 311 be made in a single trigger? George M.
Both the Stevens and Springfield versions are shown in old catalogs with the designation of Model 311-ST....the "ST" stands for single trigger..I know of no model 311 that had a plated reciever...but...since the one you had was a contract gun. Savage could have used cosmetic rejects to fill the order from Sears...the plating would cover up welds/tool marks used to fill mistakes.
Ezequiel
Joined: August 2011
Posted: December 3, 2010 09:51 AM
Both the Stevens and Springfield versions are shown in old catalogs with the designation of Model 311-ST....the "ST" stands for single trigger..I know of no model 311 that had a plated reciever...but...since the one you had was a contract gun. Savage could have used cosmetic rejects to fill the order from Sears...the plating would cover up welds/tool marks used to fill mistakes.
