Ballistically it is identical to the 45-70 Government round as used in lever action and the Trapdoor Springfield.....25,000 to 30,000 PSI Or 24,000 Cup. I seem to recall that the Danish RRB was originally a Rimfire converted to a CF in the Model 1867 Rifle. That chambering was the 11.7x42R Danish/remington. The model 1867/93 was chambered for the 8x58R Danish Krag and the 1867/96 Cavalry carbine for the 11.7x51R Danish round, all blackpowder or BP equivelent pressure rounds. De Haas shows that the RRB #1 1/2 should be able to handle the 30-30 and so then will the #1 Blackpowder action, which is rated up to the .45-90 rifle round and the 28 and 20 ga shotshell rounds. If you go to www.rayrilingarmsbooks.com you will find several useful publications on the RRB and the cartridges it is suitable for.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: August 11, 2007 07:37 PM
Ballistically it is identical to the 45-70 Government round as used in lever action and the Trapdoor Springfield.....25,000 to 30,000 PSI Or 24,000 Cup. I seem to recall that the Danish RRB was originally a Rimfire converted to a CF in the Model 1867 Rifle. That chambering was the 11.7x42R Danish/remington. The model 1867/93 was chambered for the 8x58R Danish Krag and the 1867/96 Cavalry carbine for the 11.7x51R Danish round, all blackpowder or BP equivelent pressure rounds. De Haas shows that the RRB #1 1/2 should be able to handle the 30-30 and so then will the #1 Blackpowder action, which is rated up to the .45-90 rifle round and the 28 and 20 ga shotshell rounds. If you go to www.rayrilingarmsbooks.com you will find several useful publications on the RRB and the cartridges it is suitable for.
...you may want to discuss this with RRB expert Bill Wescombe, PO Bx 488,Glencoe,Ca. 95232 Ph(209)293-7010. Bill has many parts and more experience and i believe that he has gone on-line...so Google him..Hope this is of some help...Zeke
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: August 11, 2007 08:09 PM
...you may want to discuss this with RRB expert Bill Wescombe, PO Bx 488,Glencoe,Ca. 95232 Ph(209)293-7010. Bill has many parts and more experience and i believe that he has gone on-line...so Google him..Hope this is of some help...Zeke
Thanks Zeke you are right 11.7X51R don't where I got 11.7X53. Dyslexic I guess? This gun was converted from a rim fire. I have the De Hass book but after the Martini discussion the other day I thought I would look a little further. Thanks again.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: August 11, 2007 08:37 PM
Thanks Zeke you are right 11.7X51R don't where I got 11.7X53. Dyslexic I guess? This gun was converted from a rim fire. I have the De Hass book but after the Martini discussion the other day I thought I would look a little further. Thanks again.
As with any caliber conversion, the biggest safety concern(after pressure) is the condition of the reciever and lock-up parts...Grade "A" Only is acceptable. Number 3 on that list with RRB's is the firing pin hole on Blackpowder actions..in a nutshell...it must have a bushing installed to the smaller nose diameter of the Smokeless action firing pin, if you are planning to convert to or use smokeless loads. Just to make sure you know...the "conversion" factor from Blackpowder to Smokeless is: #1 Use IMR 4198 and the weight of that charge is determine with the use of this formula. I'll use the same example that Donnelly used in his book,"The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions" GR's IMR 4198=GR's Original Blackpowder load X .29. Point 29 is the constant and applies only to IMR 4198. Example. For the .45-125-300 Winchester round: (125)(.29)= 36.25 grs. 125 is the original weight of BP charge multiplied by the conversion factor of .29. Explanation: 36.25 grains of IMR 4198 is the "SUGGESTED" smokeless powder load for the use with the original weight bullet, in this case, a 300 grain lead bullet( a 1 to 30 alloy is suggested...by me) and it is the Max load. Hope this is of some help....Zeke
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: August 12, 2007 10:23 AM
As with any caliber conversion, the biggest safety concern(after pressure) is the condition of the reciever and lock-up parts...Grade "A" Only is acceptable. Number 3 on that list with RRB's is the firing pin hole on Blackpowder actions..in a nutshell...it must have a bushing installed to the smaller nose diameter of the Smokeless action firing pin, if you are planning to convert to or use smokeless loads. Just to make sure you know...the "conversion" factor from Blackpowder to Smokeless is: #1 Use IMR 4198 and the weight of that charge is determine with the use of this formula. I'll use the same example that Donnelly used in his book,"The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions" GR's IMR 4198=GR's Original Blackpowder load X .29. Point 29 is the constant and applies only to IMR 4198. Example. For the .45-125-300 Winchester round: (125)(.29)= 36.25 grs. 125 is the original weight of BP charge multiplied by the conversion factor of .29. Explanation: 36.25 grains of IMR 4198 is the "SUGGESTED" smokeless powder load for the use with the original weight bullet, in this case, a 300 grain lead bullet( a 1 to 30 alloy is suggested...by me) and it is the Max load. Hope this is of some help....Zeke
If you decide to keep it 11.7x51Rmm and shoot smokeless powder, use what I and many others consider the best smokeless powder for these old big bore black powder rifles on the market today. Made by accurate powder co. it's called XMP-5744. Send for there FREE loading guide and read about this powder.
www.accuratepowder.com/
BTW, I use only 25 grains in my rolling blocks and get very good groups. I use the trapdoor loads only 18,000 psi.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: August 12, 2007 05:42 PM
Mike, these are the dimensions of the case.
Bullet dia. .462
Neck dia. .486
Shoulder dia. none given
Base dia. .514
Rim dia. .579
Rim thickness none given
Case length 2.01"
Cartridge length 2.45"
Twist 29 1/2
This Info comes from
10 th Edition
If you decide to keep it 11.7x51Rmm and shoot smokeless powder, use what I and many others consider the best smokeless powder for these old big bore black powder rifles on the market today. Made by accurate powder co. it's called XMP-5744. Send for there FREE loading guide and read about this powder.
www.accuratepowder.com/
BTW, I use only 25 grains in my rolling blocks and get very good groups. I use the trapdoor loads only 18,000 psi.
If that's the case Mike, and it were my rifle I would rebarrel it in 45/70. Or if you can find a good barrel in .43 Spanish. Mike I'm gonna send you some pictures of my rolling blocks with a few words added.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: August 13, 2007 12:41 PM
If that's the case Mike, and it were my rifle I would rebarrel it in 45/70. Or if you can find a good barrel in .43 Spanish. Mike I'm gonna send you some pictures of my rolling blocks with a few words added.
I don't remember the dimensions and can't find the paper I wrote them down on. I have re- used the cast material. The dimensions were way off from anything I could find published. I think it will be a wall hanger for the present. Frankpowder suggested 45-70 which sounds interesting. The wife says I don't need any more gun projects now. We are middle of fixing up the house to sell so we can move to Oklahoma.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: August 13, 2007 05:48 PM
I don't remember the dimensions and can't find the paper I wrote them down on. I have re- used the cast material. The dimensions were way off from anything I could find published. I think it will be a wall hanger for the present. Frankpowder suggested 45-70 which sounds interesting. The wife says I don't need any more gun projects now. We are middle of fixing up the house to sell so we can move to Oklahoma.
