Doug - I can't find it either. Suggestion would be to access some of the schematics our host provides and see if you can match it up with anything.
Hinge/joint pins are not easily replaced. They are pressed in and can be an interesting gunsmithing exercise. Headspace and function (open/close) will depend on proper fitting to the mating barrel lug. www.brownells.com has replacement pins they offer in different sizes and the reamers needed for the pin selected.
I would suggest you take it to your gunsmith and ask for an estimate on replacing and fitting this pin. There is a little more to it than just replacing the pin.
Good luck and if you find the parents, let us know so we can put that info on file. Thanks
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: November 11, 2004 10:02 AM
Doug - I can't find it either. Suggestion would be to access some of the schematics our host provides and see if you can match it up with anything.
Hinge/joint pins are not easily replaced. They are pressed in and can be an interesting gunsmithing exercise. Headspace and function (open/close) will depend on proper fitting to the mating barrel lug. www.brownells.com has replacement pins they offer in different sizes and the reamers needed for the pin selected.
I would suggest you take it to your gunsmith and ask for an estimate on replacing and fitting this pin. There is a little more to it than just replacing the pin.
Good luck and if you find the parents, let us know so we can put that info on file. Thanks
There is no reference to a model 21 in any of my reference books. Are there any other markings? A physical discription of the firearm might help. Include any and all markings,plus gauge,type of s/s (there are break actions ,bolts and falling blocks, etc,length of barrel,how the action breaks, top lever,sidelever,etc. The other thing you might do is a visual search of the on line schematics, or get a copy of our hosts,Numrich/GPC, catalog #26 and and check all firearms of your type.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: November 11, 2004 10:06 AM
There is no reference to a model 21 in any of my reference books. Are there any other markings? A physical discription of the firearm might help. Include any and all markings,plus gauge,type of s/s (there are break actions ,bolts and falling blocks, etc,length of barrel,how the action breaks, top lever,sidelever,etc. The other thing you might do is a visual search of the on line schematics, or get a copy of our hosts,Numrich/GPC, catalog #26 and and check all firearms of your type.
Here is some additional information: Other markings - Made in U.S.A., 12 Ga. Choke. This is a single shot 12 gauge, it has a top lever break action, it can be folded in half to make it fit into a backpack.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: November 12, 2004 09:57 AM
Here is some additional information: Other markings - Made in U.S.A., 12 Ga. Choke. This is a single shot 12 gauge, it has a top lever break action, it can be folded in half to make it fit into a backpack.
Doug - So far, the only folding shotgun I can find is a Calef Companion made by Gardone in Bresica Italy. The "Made in USA" would rule that out, wouldn't it?
Stay tuned, somebody will come up with something.
Good luck
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: November 12, 2004 10:52 AM
Doug - So far, the only folding shotgun I can find is a Calef Companion made by Gardone in Bresica Italy. The "Made in USA" would rule that out, wouldn't it?
I also have a Western Field model 21 that is a 20 gauge, break action folding shotgun with the serial# F17XXX (last numbers left out for security)It seems there are quite a few out there and nobody knows anything about them besides they were cheap and they came from Wards. I have seen questions about that model number in .410, 12 ga., 20 ga. with simiar serial numbers. If anybody can find anything, I am sure we would all be very grateful. I just want to know how old it is. It is just a super little shooter!
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: June 5, 2009 04:44 PM
I also have a Western Field model 21 that is a 20 gauge, break action folding shotgun with the serial# F17XXX (last numbers left out for security)It seems there are quite a few out there and nobody knows anything about them besides they were cheap and they came from Wards. I have seen questions about that model number in .410, 12 ga., 20 ga. with simiar serial numbers. If anybody can find anything, I am sure we would all be very grateful. I just want to know how old it is. It is just a super little shooter!
The serial number would seem to say post 1968 because..WF didn't make the gun..they bought an existing model at a lower price and had their tradename stamped on it..these tended to be the less expensive grades of firearms and because of the cost of individually numbering such guns...serialzation was often not done..in 1968 that is when it became a matter of law to serialize all firearms. That said..the so-called "standards" for this type were made by Savage.Stevens/Springfield(a version of their Model 94)...but I find no reference to a WF Model 21 on any of the cross reference lists i have...but i do have a notation that for a limited time Browning made a "folding" single shot that they used to fill contracts for ceratin hardware guns. Since there is no centralized list of serial numbers that can give you a maker..you have to deal directly with makers...try asking at www.browning.com if this is one of their products. and there may be a clue to your gun origins in the prior posted answers....
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: June 5, 2009 06:39 PM
The serial number would seem to say post 1968 because..WF didn't make the gun..they bought an existing model at a lower price and had their tradename stamped on it..these tended to be the less expensive grades of firearms and because of the cost of individually numbering such guns...serialzation was often not done..in 1968 that is when it became a matter of law to serialize all firearms. That said..the so-called "standards" for this type were made by Savage.Stevens/Springfield(a version of their Model 94)...but I find no reference to a WF Model 21 on any of the cross reference lists i have...but i do have a notation that for a limited time Browning made a "folding" single shot that they used to fill contracts for ceratin hardware guns. Since there is no centralized list of serial numbers that can give you a maker..you have to deal directly with makers...try asking at www.browning.com if this is one of their products. and there may be a clue to your gun origins in the prior posted answers....
As Joe Vorisek posted back in 2004, H&R (Harrington & Richardson) produced a large frame and a small frame folding shotguns before WW2. I have one of each in my collection. The serial numbers on both and on the several other H&R folders have all started with the letter 'F' - apparently to indicate 'folding'...H&R "serial numbered" all of their firearms from the 1870's (as Wesson & Harrington)to 1999.
Skyshowbob - if you would provide a detailed description or send pictures of your piece (including a detail of the hinge) to my e-mail address I will attempt to ID it for you.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: June 7, 2009 03:23 PM
As Joe Vorisek posted back in 2004, H&R (Harrington & Richardson) produced a large frame and a small frame folding shotguns before WW2. I have one of each in my collection. The serial numbers on both and on the several other H&R folders have all started with the letter 'F' - apparently to indicate 'folding'...H&R "serial numbered" all of their firearms from the 1870's (as Wesson & Harrington)to 1999.
Skyshowbob - if you would provide a detailed description or send pictures of your piece (including a detail of the hinge) to my e-mail address I will attempt to ID it for you.
Got the pictures, and have e-mailed back, including a pic. of the folders in my collection. For future reference - this piece is definitely a Harrington & Richardson folding shotgun, produced before 1940. These guns were in production from around 1918 up to circa 1942 and were serial numbered in their own series. Very earliest pieces had no letter prefix; later pieces up to 1940 had an 'F' prefix -for folding- and, I'm guessing here based upon one example of another shotgun H&R made after 1940 that had a model designating letter prefix, from 1940 to the end of production would have had an 'A' or 'B' letter prefix followed by the 'F' then numerals. H&R had some sort of numbers on all there pieces, starting in 1871 - with very few pieces made in the 1950s and 60s that didn't, these were mostly their bottom end .22 rifles.
Numrich Archiver
Joined: February 2010
Posted: June 17, 2009 08:49 PM
Bob,
Got the pictures, and have e-mailed back, including a pic. of the folders in my collection. For future reference - this piece is definitely a Harrington & Richardson folding shotgun, produced before 1940. These guns were in production from around 1918 up to circa 1942 and were serial numbered in their own series. Very earliest pieces had no letter prefix; later pieces up to 1940 had an 'F' prefix -for folding- and, I'm guessing here based upon one example of another shotgun H&R made after 1940 that had a model designating letter prefix, from 1940 to the end of production would have had an 'A' or 'B' letter prefix followed by the 'F' then numerals. H&R had some sort of numbers on all there pieces, starting in 1871 - with very few pieces made in the 1950s and 60s that didn't, these were mostly their bottom end .22 rifles.
